Join Jon Kabat-Zinn and Dacher Keltner for a thought-provoking conversation on awe, mindfulness, and the richness of human experience. Together, they explore how moments of wonder can help us navigate life’s challenges and embrace what Kabat-Zinn calls the “full catastrophe” of being alive.
Watch the entire program below
Salience and Sentience
“Q” - What do you get when you merge Awe and Mindfulness?
“A” - A salient conversation that explores the very essence of being and the improbability of the present moment.
I’ve been fortunate to host and record many extraordinary thinkers and conversations over the years, decades actually. I recorded Joseph Campbell in the 1980’s, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, Gloria Steinem, Robert Thurman, Marianne Williamson, Marion Woodman, Robert Bly, James Hillman, and more.
This conversation with these two luminaries was profound. It was the first time they ever sat down to talk, and it was excellent.
It was an honor to host this first-ever discussion between Dacher KELTNER , author of “Awe,” and Jon Kabat-Zinn , architect of mainstream mindfulness.
Dacher Keltner, professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and director of the Greater Good Educators and the Greater Good Science Center. Dacher is a pioneer in the science of awe and compassion. His work explores how awe shapes human connection and health, and his book “Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder” is reshaping how the world sees this ancient emotion.
Jon Kabat-Zinn is affectionately referred to as the godfather of mindfulness and has introduced the West to the path of mindfulness. A scientist, writer, and meditation teacher, Jon founded Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), weaving Buddhist insight and scientific rigor to bring meditation into hospitals, boardrooms, and homes worldwide.
The Zoom room was full of people from around the globe - from Denmark to Denver. I kicked off the conversation with the invitation to my esteemed guest speakers to discuss the intersection of awe and mindfulness and to explore the rich common ground.
From there, the conversation was both grounded and exciting, playful and profound. The energy had the sense of something that felt as a spark of something novel and meaningful.
Here were two pioneers at the convergence of science and mindfulness, exploring the roots of what makes us human through the lenses of awe and awareness. The session was iconic.
You can watch the whole program here
Jon Kabat-Zinn
“When you actually are in the present moment, in this kind of non-reactive open awareness, almost everything is awe-inspiring.”
Dacher opened the conversation with a challenge:
“What is the relationship between awe and mindfulness?”
“I’ve given a lot of talks on awe...and it’s one of the singular questions that we get which is, you know, thanks to Jon, revolutionary in the study of the mind. Mindfulness is now part of our cultural conversation about the mind and well-being and people rightfully ask… how is awe.. related to mindfulness?”
Jon’s answer?
“As far as I’m concerned, there’s not an angstrom’s worth of separation between mindfulness and...what you’re talking about. It’s, one element of what actually makes us human. And it’s this sense of a deep feeling of connectivity and the enormity of our intrinsic capacity to apprehend a world that’s larger than ourselves, but to also be completely in the mystery of how it’s different from us in the first place.”
Dacher Keltner
“The most important social science statistic today is that violent crime perpetrated by young people is down 80%...and it’s the little acts of kindness...that are causing this radical drop.”
Dacher’s work has been very important to me.
What an extraordinary conversation!!! I love the idea to have a series of freewheeling conversations between Jon and Dacher.